Curse

Battle Torn · Feb 21, 2006, 01:50 PM // 13:50

lol nice thank you

Cador · Feb 21, 2006, 01:52 PM // 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squalus the Ipno

I agree

(i'm from Italy

)

Buon giorno.

In all honesty you have to give some people some slack with the typing. When people come home to play a game like i do after doing 6 hours of work and 3 hours of night school, im exhausted......

Asking me to try and remember to type grammatically correct, with correct sentence structure etc etc is just to much after having to do that for 9 hours i just want to have fun.

If i have a message to convey, i want to convey short and effectively. Personally im a fan of using u instead of you, or hu instead of who its just i sometimes i cant be arsed to have to write it all out longhand.

When you guys start being (no other word for it) dikes to the people who come onto this game to have fun, then anet is gonna start losing customers or getting a helluva a lot more complaints.

On a closing note, i appreciate seeing everything neatly typed with punctuation but it is not a requirement for me to decide someones maturity level. I am 24 and may still type like a 12 year old and at those times i just cant be arsed, wlel anyways this is me $.02

Rayea · Feb 21, 2006, 01:53 PM // 13:53

hey Azagoth, since when did you come around my local area to see this speicies?

are you also reserching the other speices?
Brit-Chav
Asia-Chav.....(yes, we do have them....like britchav, only deals drugs and think they are black when they are asian lol)
semi-chav.....(they simply want to blend into the native fauna by *looking* like a brti-chav)
and the femail dominatied species....Mom1-chav....also known as Breeder-Chav

i could help you with their habitats and breeding habits, if you like ^^

yes, i to have a dislike for leet and text message typing, though i can usually understand it.
however i have to be frank, my brain wants to talk faster than my hads and spelling can keep up with sometimes, my co-ordination is bad on keyboards and i cant touch type to save my life....
i also get letters mixed up when i type to fast, so they come out backwards...
however, i do try to keep a handle on it when i can..i guess it depends when i am posting, to whom (?) i am reply to and how cold my fingers are...

Eldin · Feb 21, 2006, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Internet slang and 1337 are fine once in a while, but I, too, sometimes feel the world of GW to be lacking literate people. Can get annoying if you're in a group with people all going "wut we doin" or people who ignore me when I say "Stop shouting in caps!!!". I spent a while on the europe servers before switching back (because nary a soul was on really due to timezone messups). Saw a lot more realistic PvE names and nothing like, "The Monk Of Doom", and I saw a lot less internet slang/1337. I seem to make more typos on GW than on other comp applications, don't know why, the chatbox seems to just "stick" in a way. Can't describe the feeling. I only use 1337 when I'm doing something crazy, like if we just defeated a boss that took ages. Rayea - I agree, sometimes my brain is faster than my hands, thusly resulting in some messups.

I used to rp a lot on Warcraft III TFT, got so annoyed at the occasional idiot who talked like "wat?". Usually though such ways of speaking are fine, unless excessive or REALLY annoying. I just hate those people who talk in caps all the time.

Many of us Guru-ers seem to be the literate ones and not the crazy ones. We're just one of those "factions" of people that don't act like the usual mindless 12 hour gamer...

...even if we are 12 hour gamers ourselves.

Ira Blinks · Feb 21, 2006, 02:27 PM // 14:27

im not the fastest typer ever, so i often write "u" instead of "you", and almost never use apostrophe unless it changes the meaning of what im trying to say. I see nothing wrong with that.

Naxohs Seralna · Feb 21, 2006, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

To this day I still can't understand why so many native speakers of English can't understand the difference between "your" and "you're" Heck, English was my second language and I can understand the difference. What's their excuse?

I'll go ahead and ask the same question. I've encountered very many people with English as their native language, and I usually find myself correcting their mistakes. Here's the catch: I'm Norwegian. English is my second language. If anything, they should be correcting me! :P

Cherno · Feb 21, 2006, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Ah but that is very much not the case for ESL people.

There is a great difference between learning a second language and learning your native language that you speak every day.

When you learn a second language, there is far more emphasis on learning grammar, vocabulary and word usage. If you don't, you don't learn the other language very well.

When you are a native speaker, you don't really have to learn the rules because you hear them all the time and for the most part you use it correctly, even if you don't know why.

Often times, speakers of more than one language are far more careful and correct in every language they speak/write than only native speakers.

You wouldn't believe the number of people that failed middle/high-school English classes and at the same time, when I was taking Spanish in college, we ocassionally had a native Spanish speaker in our class who would get poor grades. Learning a lanugage is far more than just being able to speak it.

I always like to say that the way that a message is delivered is often more important than the message itself.

Some typos and grammar errors are to be expected. Not everything has to be perfect. But there is a level in which it just becomes unbearable and not worth my time to read or try to understand unless you want to put some effort into trying to convey what you want to say in a coherent manner.

I find myself typing in non-traditional ways in game becuase you are usually trying to get something out quickly in the middle of a fight. I also often wind up typing in caps because my vent press to talk key is the caps lock key, so I am not always sure which mode I am in.

fiery · Feb 21, 2006, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Man you can vent about the grammer usage. Everyone sounds like they have a english major or something. Unlike some, i hve a PhD.

Heh don't wanna be mean or cruel. But it seems the younger ones 15-28, people in school or college likes the shortcuts in writings.

And, the lets say more experinced, um, people whose been on the world longer, likes the correct puncuation and grammar usage.

Jenosavel · Feb 21, 2006, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battle Torn

As long as you communicate what your trying to say the way you want to then ‘tough sh*t’ if it upsets anyone else, that’s their problem.

Communication is a two-way street. Just because you say something the way you want to, doesn't mean you're communicating; the message has to be understood and taken in by someone else before it becomes communication. Which I believe is the problem people in this thread are having: someone tries to save time by using a form of shorthand that actually takes longer to communicate with, due to the misunderstandings it causes.

Just because the person typing it up knew what they meant doesn't mean others will, which is why we have grammatical rules and such to begin with. Messages get across most efficiently when we're all on the same page, which is why in such things as instant messages internet shorthand works fine. Usually you know the person on the other side and have some kind of previous knowledge about their style of shorthand, and they know yours. The problem comes when you throw it out at a complete stranger who has to decipher it and may take three times as long to understand what you've just attempted to say than if you had added in a few extra keystrokes.

...not to rag on individual people, but somewhere in here it was mentioned using "hu" instead of "who," and I thought this illustrated a point. It saves all of 1 key-press, and now has teammates trying to figure out what on Earth "hu" means (if you haven't grouped with friends/guildies who know you, anyway). Phonetic spellings like that seem easy enough to get, but when one is reading silently, they really don't jump out as much as one would think. I don't think there are too many players who read everything typed in the chat box out-loud. Therefore, even using "ho" would be easier to understand, since it is one letter off of the intended word and even the most anti-shorthand players will be quick to understand what could have been an innocent typo so long as the context is there. However, shorthand doesn't follow those rules that take into consideration how the message will be recieved. All it takes into consideration is the time of sending the message off.

In short, the real problem people have with internet shorthand is when its used among non-consenting parties where it doesn't qualify as communication. If you know people don't mind it and can understand you then shorthand just fine; there's no problem. However, expecting strangers to learn your own personal grammar rules is rediculous. Shorthand comes in as many flavors as there are individuals, and personally, I'd rather learn one set of grammatical rules than a billion.

Indira · Feb 21, 2006, 03:02 PM // 15:02

My start into computer gaming is from an old text-based game, GSIII(now IV), where I have spent the last 11 years. I'm new at this 'really' massively-played game. There are times where I just have to say.. Oh.. My.. Stars!

In text-based, all you have is the written word, so right from the beginning you are judged by your name and then by how you 'speak' in-game. So "Lord Doomsday Gunnagetusuker" that pops into the game speaking computereze is going to find himself, if not actually pulled from the game, having a fairly rough go.

I'm in the habit of even spelling out numbers when speaking in-game, nothing is abbreviated. Yeah, yeah, I'm a diehard purest! At least I can say, because of the limitations placed on the players in-game, it carries over to the related message boards, so we really didn't have all this text message woot stuff.

Since I'm new to Guild Wars, I read these forums a lot (as a side bar: thank you to all you wonderful and heplful posters!) Sheesh, there are times when I can't even understand the question, let alone the answers!

I feel so loooost and confuzzzed! I'm in total agreement with those of you that sit back and shake your heads.

I do miss the RP <sniffles> and my head hurts <groans> when I even attempt to understand what's being said both on the boards and in-game.

P.S. If anyone would like to at attempt some RP or at least go out and have some fun in-game.. PM me! (LOL, even took me awhile to figure out what THAT meant!) It's Faewyn Piber and my girls can use all the help that's offered!

Cheers!

Battle Torn · Feb 21, 2006, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Quote:

In short, the real problem people have with internet shorthand is when its used among non-consenting parties where it doesn't qualify as communication. If you know people don't mind it and can understand you then shorthand just fine; there's no problem. However, expecting strangers to learn your own personal grammar rules is ridiculous.

Surely a person of your intelligence doesnt get baffled by someone using 'hu' instead of 'who'. My point is that even though you complain about shorthand you still understand it.....therefore by your own admission it is communication so dont pretend its unreasonable to expect others to put 2-2 together and get 4 for a basic typo. My point was also more specifically against those who complain about punctuation etc and being snobby about the English language when most of them arent even English. Im sorry but I will not be told how to speak, punctuate, type or communicate by anyone and I do all of the above just fine.

Quote:

Communication is a two-way street. Just because you say something the way you want to, doesn't mean you're communicating; the message has to be understood and taken in by someone else before it becomes communication.

Also, thats only your opinion that it doesnt qualify as communication ..look up the term 'communication' in the dictionary it is quite specific about what qualifies as communication... including letting feelings known or even gestures.

Dont be snobs about typing English, you only give yourself another unjustified reason to try to look down your nose at others.

Skuld · Feb 21, 2006, 03:48 PM // 15:48

lolthxplzwtf

Rayne Nightfyre · Feb 21, 2006, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiery

And, the lets say more experinced, um, people whose been on the world longer, likes the correct puncuation and grammar usage.

Not exactly. I'd fall right about in the middle of that 15-28 age group. My point I'm trying to make is that it is sad/pathetic/irritating when a certain person's posts are unreadable because of their extreme lack of grammar. Such as 10-line run-on sentences without a comma or period or anything, or the abbreviation of every word in some way. The bottom line is that it makes a person appear foolish and lazy when they type this way. On the other hand, the mere lack of an apostrophe isn't going to get me upset, it's when the person cannot convey what they want to say properly, thus making it difficult to read.

Indira said it well:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indira

because of the limitations placed on the players in-game, it carries over to the related message boards, so we really didn't have all this text message woot stuff......
Sheesh, there are times when I can't even understand the question, let alone the answers!

So I'm not trying to change the world here, but just to point out how ridiculous typing that way here on Guru is.

Lasher Dragon · Feb 21, 2006, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battle Torn

Im sorry but I will not be told how to speak, punctuate, type or communicate by anyone and I do all of the above just fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FORUM RULES

8. Do Not Abuse the English Language

This is a message board, not a chat room. Secondly, Don't use "Leet-Speak" here. As such, you have all the time necessary to articulate your posts in a coherent matter. "You" is only two more letters than "u." It won't kill you to type them. Completely illegible posts are subject to moderation - and I can't guarantee their accuracy of 'translating' the author’s original message.

Additionally, when one punctuation works instead of 10 (example: ? instead of ?!?!), use one.

Battle Torn, for the most part your posts are fine. There are a few mispellings, but nothing to take offense over. However, on these forums, there are rules concerning abuse of the English language. IMO these rules are aimed more at the people that continually bludgeon the English language, using all the aforementioned "shorthand". Whether you choose to follow the rules or not, they are there and hopefully enforced at least to some degree.

Battle Torn · Feb 21, 2006, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Yes true, but you cant hide the fact people are using others lack of grammar etc for no other reason than to be snobbish and look down their noses. Some attacking the lower classes and theorizing on what type of scumbag uses shorthand etc. If someone has such difficulty typing or communicating then its probably due to some disability or lack of education probably due to some circumstances that no one would wish upon themselves and these people deserve our help and support. Even the ones who are just plain stupid do not deserve the remarks and abuse given by some of the others in this post and others like it, acting like a pack of scavengers grouping up and attacking them for some cheap kick and self importance trip. Do not contradict me here...search is your friend, there are plenty of examples, even in this thread.

Also if these rules were enforced to any degree then the threads that make you offended with bad grammar and punctuation would be closed and I havent seen that happen. In addition to this if these rules were enforced then they would discriminate against people with dyslexia or other disabilities or even foreigners whose English is not very good. So do these people get excluded?

Also dont you understand that I do not care the slightest if my posts did 'offend' anyone though bad spelling or grammar etc. I simply do not require it to.

I simply cannot comprehend how bad grammar alone could 'offend' anyone? and if it did then you have some issues. It also sickens me that people are more concerned in arguing the toss with me about spelling when some of the previous posts here are so discriminative and offensive.

Savio · Feb 21, 2006, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battle Torn

Even the ones who are just plain stupid do not deserve the remarks and abuse given by some of the others in this post and others like it, acting like a pack of scavengers grouping up and attacking them for some cheap kick and self importance trip.

What you don't see is the mods attempting to delete all of those "spell-checking" posts. Insulting another user for grammatical or spelling mistakes falls under flaming and isn't allowed.

Quote:

Do not contradict me here...search is your friend, there are plenty of examples, even in this thread.

Search would have a hard time pulling it up.

Quote:

Also if these rules were enforced to any degree then the threads that make you offended with bad grammar and punctuation would be closed and I havent seen that happen.

Currently we only close the most illegible of threads. It's just a huge problem and a waste of moderators' time to go through and edit/close/delete every post like that. I'd close every unreadable thread, but then I'd get a lot of unreadable PMs.

Quote:

In addition to this if these rules were enforced then they would discriminate against people with dyslexia or other disabilities or even forigners whos English is not very good. So do these people get excluded?

It is for the most part very easy to distinguish between people having a problem using the English language and people being lazy and/or using Internet shorthand. I am very aware of several forum users who are nonnative speakers or who have disabilities; the most problems do not typically come from these two categories of people but from (in their user profiles anyway) teenagers.

Quote:

I simply cannot comprehend how bad grammar alone could 'offend' anyone? and if it did then you have some issues.

The problem is not the lone grammatical or spelling mistake, but when the whole thread is plagued with them something's wrong. Repeatedly typing with shorthand indicates 1. you didn't bother reading the guidelines, or 2. you don't care to follow them, neither of which shows much on your part. Constantly typing run-on sentences or illegible paragraphs is not typical of even nonnative speakers and shows either a lack of education or unwillingness to edit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guidelines with emphasis

This is a message board, not a chat room. Secondly, Don't use "Leet-Speak" here. As such, you have all the time necessary to articulate your posts in a coherent matter. "You" is only two more letters than "u." It won't kill you to type them.

If your posts are terrible grammar- and spelling-wise, one suggestion is to use a spellchecker on it first, or at least manually go through your posts. I usually make 3 or 4 revisions before I make a long post, and I usually catch my own mistakes.

Battle Torn · Feb 21, 2006, 06:01 PM // 18:01

ok fair point I cannot see the regulators attempts to delete posts, it would take too much time to delete all posts etc, perhaps others should leave the regulation to the regulators and refrain from posting negative remarks or flaming. But as a regulator I find it disturbing you havent mentioned the posts in this thread that are offensive other than to comment that they are not allowed. Indeed I did read the forum guidelines and you can see from my posts that I follow them, my point is that others commented that they were offended by some posts...haha I still cant how someone could be 'offended'.

people are getting away with flamming too much and I see repeated offenders. by flamming i reffer to the offensive remarks/posts similar to some in this thread. I do however notice that they are still there.

Lastly if you read my reaction you must realize I was responding to others who deserve your negative comments more than I do.

Lasher Dragon · Feb 21, 2006, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

Currently we only close the most illegible of threads. It's just a huge problem and a waste of moderators' time to go through and edit/close/delete every post like that. I'd close every unreadable thread, but then I'd get a lot of unreadable PMs.

That is the funniest thing I have read all day.

Symeon · Feb 21, 2006, 06:17 PM // 18:17

One thing I really find hard to understand is how using numbers instead of letters came about in the first place. Do people type like that to look cool or something? Because I can't think of any other reason. Surely, most people are used to typing with letters therefore replacing those with numbers would take a little longer to get your head round to type. So, it is by no means an easier way of typing.

However, that's called l33t speak, and is not the entire issue here. The Guild Wars Guru Forums are a majority-English forum on which people write in English, but that doesn't mean people who don't speak English can't attempt to communicate in it here. I would make a swooping guess that around 20-30% of posters here aren't English-speaking. I admire how thoroughly people in other countries learn the English language, and I greatly respect those people for simply being able to write here and be understood, something I think I would never manage to do in another language. I don't at all mind non-English people posting here, and I also don't mind when they make small errors. Of course, if they are making so many mistakes that it is illegible to English-speaking people, they should re-consider whether they should be posting here, but I have never seen a case like that.

Now I know there are varying levels of writing ability in these forums, which is of course evidenced by spelling and grammar mistakes and the like. Generally, of course, those making spelling and grammar mistakes (I'm talking about English-speaking people here) are likely to be younger, whereas older people have been fully educated and do not really make mistakes. I respect these different levels of writing ability. However, whatever your writing ability is, please don't write completely like you would in instant messaging programs and such. Small things like lol, rofl, lmao, omg, and shortenings of game terms are ok. But when you start writing everything as shortened as possible, I think people other than just me get annoyed. Often in the time you are spending thinking about shortening things you could have written it out in full. These are internet forums, or message boards, and in most places like this you'll find you are expected to write in full, like if you were handwriting a letter or something, not as if you were on MSN Messenger. Whatever your normal best writing (dammit typing) ability is, use it. Refrain from shortening and try to look over for spelling and grammar mistakes that might confuse people.

Most of all, I really dislike it when people use l33t speak. If you use this, please use it only amongst others that use it. I don't think it's cool and I don't think it's easy to type.

Sagius Truthbarron · Feb 21, 2006, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Anyone ever get 'lol tis es teh internet u donts need 2 talk good lol'?

One time this person was screaming at me non-stop in all caps about how he wanted me to use the AOL Girl Chat language. The lollersation went on for about 20 minutes, though it was rather one sided